Sen. John McCain And Former Vice President Dick Cheney Are At Odds

I don’t always agree with Sen. John McCain, but he is far more credible and a far more respectable individual than Dick Cheney, the former vice president could ever dream of being. Certainly, Sen. McCain (based on his well-documented personal history and his willingness to be more objectively educated on the topic) is far more credible than Cheney on issues having to do with torture.

Here is what Sen. McCain recently had to say as written by Sam Stein, a writer for Huffington Post:

In a strong pushback against claims made by former Vice President Dick Cheney, Sen. John McCain insisted on Sunday that the use of torture on terrorism suspects violated international law, didn’t work, and actually helped al Qaeda recruit additional members.

“I think the interrogations were in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the convention against torture that we ratified under President Reagan,” said the Arizona Republican. “I think these interrogations, once publicized, helped al Qaeda recruit. I got that from an al Qaeda operative in a prison camp in Iraq… I think that the ability of us to work with our allies was harmed. And I believe that information, according go the FBI and others, could have been gained through other members.”

The senator, appearing on CBS’ Face the Nation, offered his assessment just hours after Cheney defended the use of torture during an interview with Fox News Sunday.

Cheney, a long-time torture advocate, is definitely at odds with Sen. McCain, but considering Cheney’s dubious history I think it’s better to side with John McCain.

John McCain Understands The Torture Issue

Sen. John McCain, perhaps as much as anyone, understands what torture issue is all about (even if you take the approach of former Vice President Dick Cheney and distract from the seriousness by using the words “enhanced interrogation” to describe torture). Vice President Cheney has been on this Save-My-Legacy Tour, but has mostly done nothing but damage to his own party.

MCCAIN: When you have a majority of Americans, seventy-something percent, saying we shouldn’t torture, then I’m not sure it helps for the Vice President to go out and continue to espouse that position. But look, he’s free to talk. He’s a former Vice President of the United States. I just don’t see where it helps.

Sen. McCain also seems to take issue with the sugarcoating of torture:

MCCAIN: (Cheney) believes that waterboarding doesn’t fall under the Geneva Conventions and that it’s not a form of torture. But you know, it goes back to the Spanish Inquisition.

Someone needs to tell Dick Cheney that it’s over, his time is up and he should go chill out somewhere.

Think Progress:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/05/22/mccain-cheney-torture/

Jesse Ventura School Bus Stop 2: Hannity

Jesse Ventura, the former Navy SEAL and former governor of Minnesota, has on Sean Hannity’s Fox News television program. Ventura had Hannity so tied up in knots that the conservative talk show host even made the laughable statement that the United States of America is better off after George W. Bush than it was before his presidency began. It’s a good thing for Hannity that Ventura seemed to have an abbreviated segment. Ventura, who is a proud independent, ran a clinic on how to school a blowhard conservative sticking obsessively to party talking points (while ignoring reality). I have to admit. I give Hannity a little bit of credit for bringing Ventura on there (even though Jesse beat him like a drum).

The Gholston Post:
http://simmerdown3.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/jesse-ventura-school-bus-stop-no-2/

Jesse Ventura School Bus Stop 3: Fox And Friends

Jesse Ventura, a former Navy SEAL and the former governor of the state of Minnesota, continued his school bus route as he made a stop on the set of Fox and Friends. Pay particular attention to an early exchange that takes place between Ventura and one of the hosts, Brian Kilmeade. In two different ways, Ventura asks Kilmeade why we don’t torture/waterboard criminals in the United States of America (including Timothy McVeigh, who was a major part of the Oklahoma City federal building bombing)? Both times, Kilmeade ducks the question and changes the subject to try and make it seem as though Ventura is not as interested in keeping us safe. Jesse, however, was not buying Kilmeade’s right-wing garbage.

Here is a transcript from Crooks and Liars:

VENTURA: I have been waterboarded. It is torture. I can speak from experience. It was part of SERE training that I went through as a Navy SEAL.

KILMEADE: And are you OK now?

VENTURA: I’m fine.

KILMEADE: So is Khalid Sheik Mohammed. He’s about 60 pounds overweight, having a great time –

VENTURA: It doesn’t matter. If it was OK, then why don’t we do it to criminals? Like, if we’ve got gang members in L.A., OK? We know that their gangs are gonna do bad things. When we arrest them, why don’t we waterboard them so we can get information out of them? Because it’s against the law.

Hmm, that is a good question. How does the right-winger Kilmeade respond? He changes the subject.

KILMEADE: Do you want us not to be safe from attack?

Ventura was not impressed.

VENTURA: Don’t come after me with that nonsense.

VENTURA: OK, why didn’t we waterboard McVeigh and Nichols, then? There were more people that they thought involved at Oklahoma City. Why weren’t they waterboarded to get more information? Because it’s against the law.

Wait — and if we’re not going to be a country that goes by the rule of law when it’s convenient or not convenient, then what do we stand for?

More good points by Ventura. Kilmeade, of course, ignores the points and goes back to the politics of fear.

KILMEADE: But what about the difference — you bring up Timothy McVeigh and maybe gang members, and maybe those threats weren’t as imminent as the threats –

VENTURA: I don’t think these threats are imminent.

KILMEADE: You didn’t think after 9/11, that America felt threats were imminent, that more could be coming?

VENTURA: Maybe. But I think our behavior has caused us to be in more trouble. Now they won’t release these photos. Why? Because they know the Muslim world will go irate. They’re all after Nancy Pelosi — when did she know? When dah dah dah — Well, if we hadn’t of tortured, it would be a dead issue, wouldn’t it?

The Jesse Ventura School Bus Route … coming to school a conservative hypocrite near you.

For the video:
http://simmerdown3.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/jesse-ventura-school-bus-stop-3-fox-and-friends/

Crooks and Liars (I encourage you to read David Neiwert’s blog. It’s good stuff):
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/jesse-ventura-piledrives-yellow-elep

Greg Gutfield Remains A Proponent Of Torture

Fox News’ television show host Greg Gutfield is one of a large number of people to the right of the political mainstream who favor torture. You see, they don’t call it torture, because torture sounds too evil. So, they’ve made up this less nasty-sounding way of saying it. They call it “enhanced interrogation.” I suppose that sends the Greg Gutfields and the Sean Hannitys of the world to sleep with a smile knowing that we are involved in “enhanced interrogation” and not torture. Sure, “enhanced interrogation” doesn’t sound quite as immoral as torture.

Consider this excerpt from Gutfield’s column:

Lets get this straight: implementing enhanced interrogation techniques is not immoral. What’s immoral is not doing everything possible to prevent an enemy from killing the people you love.That one rule overrules everything – making the actions you take toward that enemy supremely moral – whether the acts involve waterboarding, sleep deprivation, playing loud music, or watching David Shuster.

First Gutfield tries to sugarcoat torture and then he goes to the conservative scare tactic of trying to make it seem as though anyone opposed to torture is essentially cheer leading and enabling our enemies.

More from GutlessGutfield:

The idea that waterboarding is evil really stems from certain folks feeling awkward when asked about it at Brentwood cocktail parties. And that’s the truly immoral element in this ridiculous debate: if saving face means more than saving lives, then we’re totally screwed.I’d rather live in a country that’s despised for waterboarding two asshats, than a well-liked one with craters for cities. The desire for popularity is really at the heart of this: and it’s a far worse moral crime than anything done with a rag and bucket of water.

This depth and breadth of stupidity in the above excerpt is staggering. The Greg Gutfields of the world seem to think it’s difficult (if not impossible) to achieve peace unless torture, excuse me, “enhanced interrogation” is involved. He pushes the idiotic argument that either you torture people or you live in a country with “craters for cities.” This is an old-fashioned Republican scare tactic.

This is not a desire for popularity. Now, it suits people like Greg Gutfield well to portray it in such a fashion. We do not need to be the most popular nation, but we do need to be a nation that is respected by our neighbors around the world (something that was not the case during the administration of President George W. Bush). We need to build bridges and not destroy bridges. I wonder how Greg Gutfield would feel about people torturing our people to keep their cities from becoming craters or to be able to get more information?

We must be a nation that shows people we are the best and not be a nation that flies around the world telling everyone we’re the best and trying to initimidate our enemies and all who have differences with us. To the Greg Gutfields of the world, I say “give diplomacy and peace a chance.” I don’t expect anything other than the politics of fear and intimidation from those on the far right of the political spectrum.

Big Hollywood:
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggutfeld/2009/05/15/daily-gut-saving-face-vs-saving-lives/

Fascinating Larry King Interview Of Jesse Ventura

Former Navy SEAL Jesse Ventura, the former governor of the state of Minnesota, was a guest on CNN’s Larry King Live recently, and was part of a fascinating interview. Rather than place a big chunk of comments at the beginning of this blog, I will sprinkle them throughout the transcript.

KING: Joining us now, Jesse Ventura, former wrestler, former governor of Minnesota, former Navy SEAL, the author of “Don’t Start The Revolution Without Me.” That book is now out in paper back. Welcome to have you back, Jesse. There you see the cover of the book. How’s Obama doing?
JESSE VENTURA, FMR. GOV. OF MINNESOTA: Too early to tell, Larry, really. In my opinion, George Bush is the worst president in my lifetime.
KING: Have an opinion, will you?
VENTURA: I will. I will. And he’s the worst president in my lifetime. So Barack Obama, President Obama inherited something I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. You know? Two wars, an economy that’s borderline depression. So it’s far too early to judge him 100 days in. I think if you have me back about two years from now, I can give you a much better of how he’s doing.

Don’t try to tell some people this is a mess President Obama has inherited. As we saw at the Tax Day tea party protests, conservatives have forgotten about President Bush and are blaming everything on President Obama. I can imagine the conservatives flipping out over the comments of Ventura, who has never been one to hold his tongue when asked a question. As for George W. Bush being the worst president … that is a sentiment many people will hold. Still, you know many conservatives are angered by such a comment. Personally, I believe Bush is a good man who surrounded himself with corrupt and inept people.

VENTURA: And then you look at Dick Cheney who ran and hid. I have no respect for Dick Cheney. I have tremendous respect for General Powell.
KING: He poked fun at himself at the White House correspondents’ dinner Saturday night. Let’s watch.

I choose to get behind Gen. Colin Powell over Vice President Dick Cheney. I think Gen. Powell’s reputation is far stronger than Cheney’s.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Finally, I believe that my next 100 days will be so successful I’ll be able to complete them in 72 days. And on the 73rd day, I will rest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: He’s very likable.
VENTURA: Oh, yes.
KING: Right?
VENTURA: Very intelligent, which is a change from our previous president.
KING: All right already with Bush.
VENTURA: No, I live in Mexico now, Larry. So I do a lot of reading. I don’t watch much TV. This year’s reading, I covered Bush’s life. I covered Guantanamo and a few other subjects. And I’m very disturbed about it.
I’m bothered over Guantanamo because it seems we have created our own Hanoi Hilton. We can live with that? I have a problem. I will criticize President Obama on this level; it’s a good thing I’m not president because I would prosecute every person that was involved in that torture. I would prosecute the people that did it. I would prosecute the people that ordered it. Because torture is against the law.
KING: You were a Navy SEAL.
VENTURA: That’s right. I was water boarded, so I know — at SERE School, Survival Escape Resistance Evasion. It was a required school you had to go to prior to going into the combat zone, which in my era was Vietnam. All of us had to go there. We were all, in essence — every one of us was water boarded. It is torture.
KING: What was it like?

Torture is torture and we can’t allow ourselves to sink down to the level of people that we consider terrorists. As the Crooks and Liars writer points out, it would be interesting to see if Sean Hannity would have the guts to straight up debate Jesse Ventura on his prime-time Fox News show. I doubt it would happen, and if it did Hannity would no doubt do everything he could try and stack the segment or segments in his favor.

VENTURA: It’s drowning. It gives you the complete sensation that you are drowning. It is no good, because you — I’ll put it to you this way, you give me a water board, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I’ll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.
KING: Even though you know it’s not going to happen — even though before it, you know you’re not going to drown.
VENTURA: You don’t know it. If it’s — if it’s done wrong, you certainly could drown. You could swallow your tongue. You could do a whole bunch of stuff. If it’s it done wrong or — it’s torture, Larry. It’s torture.
[.....]
KING: A lot of things to go into, Jesse. What do you make of the Cheney/Limbaugh –
VENTURA: I don’t have a lot of respect for Dick Cheney. Here’s a guy who got five deferments from the Vietnam War. Clearly, he’s a coward. He wouldn’t go when it was his time to go. And now he is a chicken hawk. Now he is this big tough guy who wants this hardcore policy. And he’s the guy that sanctioned all this torture by calling it enhanced interrogation.

Those are some strong words for Dick Cheney.

KING: Do you think Rush Limbaugh’s a better Republican than Colin Powell?
VENTURA: No, not at all. In fact, if you compare the two, let’s look at Colin Powell, who’s a war hero, who strapped it on for his country, and didn’t run and hide.
KING: Twice.

If anyone thinks Rush Limbaugh is a better Republican than Gen. Colin Powell then that speaks volumes of how low a state the GOP is in these days.

Crooks and Liars:
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/node/28083

Begala: Bush/Cheney Administration Did Not Keep Us Safe

Paul Begala, writing for Huffington Post, debunks a lot of the garbage we’ve been hearing from former Vice President Dick Cheney on his Save My Legacy tour.

Here is an excerpt:

If 3,000 Americans had been killed on your watch, in an attack that could have been prevented, perhaps you’d be a little hesitant to accuse anyone else of endangering America. And if you had advocated torture, and the torture produced false information that you used to mislead America into an unwise, unjust and unwarranted war, you might be a tad sheepish about defending the use of torture.

Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-begala/mr-cheney-you-did-not-kee_b_203013.html